Game Classy 63: Next Ed

by Joe on June 8, 2014

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gc63The boys get all giddy about the new edition of Dungeons and Dragons. Plus, the two discuss the newest Kickstarters from Red Box Games and Drinking Quest. All this and a roundup on 40k’s 7th ed sales.
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{ 8 comments… read them below or add one }

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Cliff June 9, 2014 at 11:30 am

Boba Fett WAS originally very cool and the only good thing to come out of the Holiday Special. The costume, his enigmatic presence, and disgusted officer’s comment about bounty hunters all contribute to setting them all up as being very deadly and very cool.

Hell, Fett was the only one of them given a direct order to practice restraint. When you’ve got a bunch of scary looking badasses standing around and there’s one you have to tell to “chill on the killing mutherfucker.”, he’s a cool sumbitch cinematically speaking.

Unfortunately, like everything else Lucas did after TESB, he took something the fans really liked and gave them more without contemplating the consequences. Fett should have never been in Jabba’s palace in ROTJ. He’s a bounty hunter. He should have been out working. We should have never seen him again, but Lucas had to show the good guys winning so he kills off Boba Fett like a chump, and then retcons him knowing Solo by putting him into the Special Editions, again, pandering to the fanboys.

If Fett had never shown up after TESB, he’d still be cool.


Cliff June 9, 2014 at 12:11 pm

From a microeconomics point of view, your argument that people with big armies/lots of GW stuff should keep buying it is incorrect. The money they’ve spent is considered “sunk costs” and is money gone, not invested. The argument of “well, I’ve spent this much, may as well keep spending money” is the same sort of lying shenanigans politicians try to pull.

So feel free to keep on busting on GW players about how it sucks to play GW games and they should stop.


Joe June 9, 2014 at 12:59 pm

I think its more of a “brand” delusion. Like people who are really into Apple. People who are really into GW are going to continue regardless.


Cliff June 9, 2014 at 5:18 pm

Oh, you’re absolutely right. That’s why the idea of sunk costs is always ignored. To do otherwise would mean that you recognize the amount of money you’ve spent on all those little plastic men that is JUST GONE. The butthurt is too much, so they’ll delude themselves into believing it’s an investment. But it’s not.

Trust me, I nearly wept when I learned about sunk costs.


Eric June 9, 2014 at 9:45 pm

You guys talk about D&D and Pathfinder but have you played any other RPGs like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay? I love the IP but I haven’t played an RPG in over 20 years.


Joe June 10, 2014 at 7:25 am

we haven’t talked about it in a while. Not really relevant anymore. It may come up


Cliff June 11, 2014 at 1:20 pm

I picked up all of FFG’s offerings for WFRP3e, and they did a good job of taking the very fun, but stupidly deadly previous version and making it much more playable. They kept all the stuff from 1e and 2e (basically the same game with a change to magic). All the great horrible critical hits charts are still there. The careers system (one of the strongest concepts in the game) is still there. Trollslayers are still there. And they’re terrifying even at first level.

The big change was the addition of the storytelling dice system that works so well in their Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG. It’s debut was WFRP3e, and it seems unwieldy at first, but once you learn it, completely changes the concept of “role play versus roll play”. It gives the GM a way to reward those talky experienced players who role play every single encounter without penalizing a new player or players who may not feel comfortable with “being in character” for each and every interaction.

I believe another change was their spin on initiative during combat, and it’s one of the greatest, simplest changes to combat in role playing games as far as I’m concerned. The basic gist is that all players roll for initiative as their opponents, but once the initiative order is determined the players can act in any order so long as they do it on one of their turns to act in the initiative order. This goes for their opponents as well. So a wizard with buff spells can always buff the fighter BEFORE the fighter acts. The fighter could go last at the end of one round and first at the beginning of the next one, essentially giving him two attacks back to back.

And that’s just the basic idea, it really pays off in the way the players begin to actually play as a team during encounters, playing to each others’ strengths and protecting each others’ weaknesses. I will find a way to incorporate WFRP3e’s initiative system into every role playing game I ever run from now on.

The adventures and supplements they released were really high quality and fairly open-ended in a lot of ways that gave a good GM plenty of room to add homemade content.

Unfortunately, I always got the feeling that they were trying to hard to differentiate it from their 40k line of RPGs so it feels more like the bastard child of an RPG and one of their boardgames. So it definitely has that FFG “OH MY GOD LOOK AT ALL THE COMPONENTS!” feel to it. There are action cards, spell cards, creature cards, range chits, stress tokens and fear tokens, stand ups with bases (which are pretty cool), character sheets, encounter sheets, heroic card backers, ad nauseum.

That’s not to say that all the stuff is a waste, a clever GM with basic organizational skills and a couple Akro-Mills plastic organizers could have everything he needs at his fingertips. It’s just a bulky bunch of components to keep track of.

All-in-all, WFRP3e is a really good system badly in need of a game designer/editor and an overhaul. If FFG were to release a 3.5e or 4e version that moved it away from the component heavy pseudo-board game and toward a standardized RPG, I think they’d have an amazing hit on their hands.


Steve June 11, 2014 at 6:46 pm

I have played many an RPG. I’m sure I’ve brought them up now and then. Maybe I’ll do some more RPG talk on the next cast.


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